This tile is from SpreeQuilt #15 - This Quilt is Rubbish! [The Thursday Night SpreeQuilt]
Tile Info
Comment: rubbish
By: razghul
Checked out at: May 29, 2003
Checked in at: May 29, 2003
Checkout tile:
In Context
Posts
the flag was not meant political!
I dont want to insult anybody in his/her political opinion; The quilt said I was supposed to draw the content of my trashcan, Im sorry if you feel disrespected!
Re: the flag was not meant political!
art is art
but i am a little insulted, because those look like perfectly
edible french fries in the trash :oP
not to get political...
but seriously it must be just a little bit political...
why would a flag be in your trash can? if you had it to begin with, you must have thought it was worth something until recently. a lot of people around the world don't like America or Americans, or have a bad opinion of us because of our leader[s]. some Americans think all Muslims are bad because of the terrorists, which i think is shortsighted, and some places are renaming French Fries because the French didn't agree with Bush, which imo is just stupid. one bad apple does not spoil the whole barrel is my point... surely you can identify with that.
anyway cool tile... very well done as always :o))
but i am a little insulted, because those look like perfectly
edible french fries in the trash :oP
not to get political...
but seriously it must be just a little bit political...
why would a flag be in your trash can? if you had it to begin with, you must have thought it was worth something until recently. a lot of people around the world don't like America or Americans, or have a bad opinion of us because of our leader[s]. some Americans think all Muslims are bad because of the terrorists, which i think is shortsighted, and some places are renaming French Fries because the French didn't agree with Bush, which imo is just stupid. one bad apple does not spoil the whole barrel is my point... surely you can identify with that.
anyway cool tile... very well done as always :o))
cool? hmm, let me rephrase that lest i be misunderstood
i think your artwork is cool, and always above par. the subject matter of this one however, i do not think of as cool.
i personally find it to be of the "bait" or "flame" category.
you say you did not intend to insult anyone. then may i ask you what response you expected when you said the American flag was in your garbage?
i'm not trying to pick on you or start an argument... i'm just trying to be open in asking your motive.
peace
i personally find it to be of the "bait" or "flame" category.
you say you did not intend to insult anyone. then may i ask you what response you expected when you said the American flag was in your garbage?
i'm not trying to pick on you or start an argument... i'm just trying to be open in asking your motive.
peace
Re: cool? hmm, let me rephrase that lest i be misunderstood
Okay, okay, you got me; Im kind of an antiamerican (wich does not mean I am against the american people, just against the government). The Flag could have been the one of any different Country. Something wich makes me really agressive is that the leaders of all countries are playing a really foul game with their population. I think that there is sth. totally different going on in comparison to what theyre saying in public. In my opinion, the american government is, at the moment the main agressor and bush is one of those guys who are speaking of peace and democracy and thinking of war and imperialism.
To be honest, there was no american flag in my trashcan. I just wanted to clerify that I did not wanted to insult anybody (except the governments). The next time, im drawing a german or an iraqi flag!
Hope I found the right words to show you my intentions. My english is a bit limited.
peace
nik
To be honest, there was no american flag in my trashcan. I just wanted to clerify that I did not wanted to insult anybody (except the governments). The next time, im drawing a german or an iraqi flag!
Hope I found the right words to show you my intentions. My english is a bit limited.
peace
nik
Re: Re: cool? hmm, let me rephrase that lest i be misunderstood
ok, thanks Nik. i'm anti-goverment too... or anti-corrupt-government, [probably amounts to the same thing] ;o)
offensive....
I'm sorry maybe its just my american sentimentality; however, I do indeed find this offensive. I know art is in the eyes of the beholder but golly what were you thinking? With all the hate & terroism in the world shouldn't we try to make it a nicer better place to be? We don't need to harbor more hate & resentment. I felt that ice was a place that people from all over the world could get together and get along (a nice example for all)...but alas.....
Re: offensive....
Imo, terrorism is a reaction to imperialism and america is the most imperialistic government at the moment. I think a world in peace would be cool and im trying to make it a "nicer better place to be" with attacking those who are, imo, the reason for "hate and resentment" at the moment. I did not wanted to attack you, I wanted to attack bush, rumsfeld & co. And please dont think the american "democracy" is the nicest and best place in the world.
Re: Re: offensive....
I'm just not sure how to reply to this....guess you're a rebel with what you feel is a cause...and you're allowed to voice your opinion no matter how unpopular it may be......guess I'm too old to understand this...and sorry maybe I live in a fairy land but imo I do think america is the nicest and best place in the world. Be Happy!! :)
Re: offensive....
wow political discussion ... It is true that the US is not the most popular country in the world and for good reason. The truth is that the US has never been a particularly good citizen of the world. The American sensibilities are so out of tune with the majority of the world population that most of the time we may as well be living on different planets. I'm afraid the problem cannot be easily signed off to corrupt government it is the under-informed and undere-ducated majority of our population that elected our current leaders who are responsible for the state of afairs. Our democracy works well, this is what we have made of it. However, discussion and debate is the only civilized method to bring people and nations together. When bullets take the place of words civilization takes a giant leap backwards and never fully recovers. At the exepense of sounding like a hippie, I will add this. I think that Art has an inate power to cross cultural, language and national borders in ways words planes and tanks never can, to me that is encouraging.
Great tile.
I feel priveledged to be the one to continue it. Your tile is a perfect metaphor for America's future under the control of greedy politicians and big corporations. Ya, great tile.
hehe
told ya, Nik ;)
People, if you don't like the art, rate it down. iCE is really a-political. Please try to keep it that way. :)
People, if you don't like the art, rate it down. iCE is really a-political. Please try to keep it that way. :)
Re: hehe
:)
brain clean
Nice work!? ya'll got a good imagination and produce very well.
1. How can there be religion in art?
2. Having to excuse yourself in this situation - even to be polite should be considered 'worse' to the person doing it than to the people who may be affected by it.
Someone saying you're a racist because ya used a specific word makes them a racist.
Mofos are thinkin backwards these days its frustrating. =/
I'm gettin help though I decided to goto a psychologist, just gotta get to the place is all.
1. How can there be religion in art?
2. Having to excuse yourself in this situation - even to be polite should be considered 'worse' to the person doing it than to the people who may be affected by it.
Someone saying you're a racist because ya used a specific word makes them a racist.
Mofos are thinkin backwards these days its frustrating. =/
I'm gettin help though I decided to goto a psychologist, just gotta get to the place is all.
on symbols...
First, I'd like to agree on dimeboys opinion about polititcal discussions being the far better alternative. And even though ice is not a political message board, I think this place gains a lot if people discuss their opinions.
But, since this is mainly a place about art, let me ponder a little:
IMO this is all about symbols and their (mis)understanding:
Different reactions to a symbol (here a flag) occur, because some symbols don't "work" internationally, have different meanings to different people. A very simple example, a heart-shape is to most people of the western hemisphere a symbol for love. But there might be cultures that associate a different meaning for it (example) , or some dont know the symbol at all and might just think "weird shape, no meaning".
The latter case doesnt't apply to the american flag. [Except maybe aliens who think "pretty colors, hey look, they might be best buddies with the french, they use red, white and blue, too ;) ]
On a simple level, this symbol leaves no room for different meanings. All countries have flags that represent them. So the flag means "USA", in a very simple way.
But then, on the next, more complicated level of "reading", it starts to have different meanings for poeple. It all depends on the context of "reading" and "reader". So to some people, it means, "this is my country, and it stands for my home, which I love". To others, it means "this stands for my country, and even though I'm not happy at all with a lot of things that happen, it stands for some kind of ideal, which I believe is good". Then again, some people read it "this stands for a state (not a people!), and I disagree very strongly for the actions it takes internationaly". And so on...
If you place a symbol next to another (here: flag and brand symbol), they sort of "interact", and then again, you get more meanings...(depending on your oppinions on fast food, globalism ect.) IMHO using those two symbols together in a "trash"-quilt is pretty cliché, bland "look here, I'm politically left" (sorry, razghul, even though I agree with your opinions, I think the tile lacks intellectual taste)
The question is, are symbols free to use by anybody? Yes. (There are exceptions, of course. For example, the use of the swastica-symbol is prohibited in Germany, and that for a very good reason...)
Do we want to accept the risk of "different readings" and misunderstanding and hurt feelings for the sake of personal expression? Yes, I believe the possibility of different understandings is a chance, not a curse.
Sorry for the "novel".
But, since this is mainly a place about art, let me ponder a little:
IMO this is all about symbols and their (mis)understanding:
Different reactions to a symbol (here a flag) occur, because some symbols don't "work" internationally, have different meanings to different people. A very simple example, a heart-shape is to most people of the western hemisphere a symbol for love. But there might be cultures that associate a different meaning for it (example) , or some dont know the symbol at all and might just think "weird shape, no meaning".
The latter case doesnt't apply to the american flag. [Except maybe aliens who think "pretty colors, hey look, they might be best buddies with the french, they use red, white and blue, too ;) ]
On a simple level, this symbol leaves no room for different meanings. All countries have flags that represent them. So the flag means "USA", in a very simple way.
But then, on the next, more complicated level of "reading", it starts to have different meanings for poeple. It all depends on the context of "reading" and "reader". So to some people, it means, "this is my country, and it stands for my home, which I love". To others, it means "this stands for my country, and even though I'm not happy at all with a lot of things that happen, it stands for some kind of ideal, which I believe is good". Then again, some people read it "this stands for a state (not a people!), and I disagree very strongly for the actions it takes internationaly". And so on...
If you place a symbol next to another (here: flag and brand symbol), they sort of "interact", and then again, you get more meanings...(depending on your oppinions on fast food, globalism ect.) IMHO using those two symbols together in a "trash"-quilt is pretty cliché, bland "look here, I'm politically left" (sorry, razghul, even though I agree with your opinions, I think the tile lacks intellectual taste)
The question is, are symbols free to use by anybody? Yes. (There are exceptions, of course. For example, the use of the swastica-symbol is prohibited in Germany, and that for a very good reason...)
Do we want to accept the risk of "different readings" and misunderstanding and hurt feelings for the sake of personal expression? Yes, I believe the possibility of different understandings is a chance, not a curse.
Sorry for the "novel".
Re: on symbols...
good job, you said a mouthful Ireen ;o)
and yes, i agree, it does come down to interpretation.
in theory, i agree with the right to "individual" freedom of artistic expression.
i saw the tile before the comments began...my grandfather and my uncle served their country in the military. currently three of my own students are in the military and risking their lives overseas for what they believe to be a worthy cause. i personally think war is stupid, all war, including the current one. but when i look at our flag i do not think of the countries leaders. instead i see the young women and men who are willing to die for what they believe, be they misguided or not... and i had pretty much decided to keep my mouth shut and my hands off of this one.
then i saw the first post by Nik, which immediately brought to mind the rules for posting... and i thought hmmm?, maybe on a quilt those rules should cover the artwork as well as the posts. especially since these pieces of art, these quilts, do not belong merely one individual.
anyone [with slothy's permission of course] may start a private quilt of any topic they prefer and invite whomever they choose. any artist can also apply for iCE membership, and then submit their own work, which will not be censored. i personally think those would be more apropos venues for the "individual" expression of controversial subject matter.
for the record, i haven't and i will not be voting on this one.
peace
and yes, i agree, it does come down to interpretation.
in theory, i agree with the right to "individual" freedom of artistic expression.
i saw the tile before the comments began...my grandfather and my uncle served their country in the military. currently three of my own students are in the military and risking their lives overseas for what they believe to be a worthy cause. i personally think war is stupid, all war, including the current one. but when i look at our flag i do not think of the countries leaders. instead i see the young women and men who are willing to die for what they believe, be they misguided or not... and i had pretty much decided to keep my mouth shut and my hands off of this one.
then i saw the first post by Nik, which immediately brought to mind the rules for posting... and i thought hmmm?, maybe on a quilt those rules should cover the artwork as well as the posts. especially since these pieces of art, these quilts, do not belong merely one individual.
anyone [with slothy's permission of course] may start a private quilt of any topic they prefer and invite whomever they choose. any artist can also apply for iCE membership, and then submit their own work, which will not be censored. i personally think those would be more apropos venues for the "individual" expression of controversial subject matter.
for the record, i haven't and i will not be voting on this one.
peace
ahem
Ireen..
"IMHO using those two symbols together in a "trash"-quilt is pretty cliché, bland "look here, I'm politically left" (sorry, razghul, even though I agree with your opinions, I think the tile lacks intellectual taste)"
Are you saying that you can't have intellectual taste and be politically left at the same time?
"The question is, are symbols free to use by anybody? Yes. (There are exceptions, of course. For example, the use of the swastica-symbol is prohibited in Germany, and that for a very good reason...)"
You can't ban a symbol, no matter what reason you think is good enough. Just like it says up there about the american flag meaning different things to different people. If you go along with what you say, there can be no good reason whatsoever to use a swastica symbol in germany.
I'm not trying to be critical but if I'm thinking wrong I want to know. There should be no crime in that.
-cytral skunk
"IMHO using those two symbols together in a "trash"-quilt is pretty cliché, bland "look here, I'm politically left" (sorry, razghul, even though I agree with your opinions, I think the tile lacks intellectual taste)"
Are you saying that you can't have intellectual taste and be politically left at the same time?
"The question is, are symbols free to use by anybody? Yes. (There are exceptions, of course. For example, the use of the swastica-symbol is prohibited in Germany, and that for a very good reason...)"
You can't ban a symbol, no matter what reason you think is good enough. Just like it says up there about the american flag meaning different things to different people. If you go along with what you say, there can be no good reason whatsoever to use a swastica symbol in germany.
I'm not trying to be critical but if I'm thinking wrong I want to know. There should be no crime in that.
-cytral skunk
Re: ahem
cytraL: "Are you saying that you can't have intellectual taste and be politically left at the same time?"
No. The "taste" I meant doesn't have to to with any specific political opinion. More with the "Hey look here" part. Using the two mentioned symbols in context of "trash".
cytraL: "You can't ban a symbol, no matter what reason you think is good enough."
I agree, but there can be exceptions. If you use the the swastica symbol in Germany (or some other place)now, it's like agreeing to Nazis. Its disgusting.
There are exceptions to that law in Germany, of course, for example if you're making a documentary film or if you make sure its clear the symbol is used in a historical sense.
No. The "taste" I meant doesn't have to to with any specific political opinion. More with the "Hey look here" part. Using the two mentioned symbols in context of "trash".
cytraL: "You can't ban a symbol, no matter what reason you think is good enough."
I agree, but there can be exceptions. If you use the the swastica symbol in Germany (or some other place)now, it's like agreeing to Nazis. Its disgusting.
There are exceptions to that law in Germany, of course, for example if you're making a documentary film or if you make sure its clear the symbol is used in a historical sense.
:-)
I like cheese!
Re: :-)
yeah, cheese rocks!
you think the Mets will win the pennant this year? ;o))
you think the Mets will win the pennant this year? ;o))
Re: Re: :-)
:-D
Re: Re: :-)
Yep, I think they will, considering they already won the Superbowl. A nice pendant to go with their ring...
;-)
;-)
Re: Re: Re: :-)
Aren't the Mets a Baseball team?
Who cares? Soccer is more interesting :)
Who cares? Soccer is more interesting :)
Re: Re: Re: Re: :-)
for me the phrase "Who cares?" applies to all sports... but ok... let's change it up... you think Germany will win the World Cup this year? ;o))
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: :-)
Nah. But I wouldn't bet on France either.
After their failing to go to the finals, I don't think they'll be able to this year either :P
After their failing to go to the finals, I don't think they'll be able to this year either :P
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: :-)
Hey, I won a coffee cup once!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: :-)
really? when did u win it?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: :-)
Just last year, before Thanksgiving.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: :-)
cool! :)
btw, i think we succeeded in changing the topic ;)
btw, i think we succeeded in changing the topic ;)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: :-)
Quite successfully I'd say ;-)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: :-)
i won a whole dollar on one of those scratch and sniff lottery cards once 8^)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: :-)
Lucky you! I have to leave the state to be able to buy a lottery card.
pfft
way to ruin truth
disturbing thoughts, questions pending. limitation of human understanding ^^.
disturbing thoughts, questions pending. limitation of human understanding ^^.
pssst
there is no "truth". only conjecture.
while we breath, there are, and will always be disturbing thoughts and questions pending.
the limitations of human understanding i guess we gotta live with,
but no biggie, cause we're only here for the blink of an eye.
so i say "screw it"! let's dance!!
while we breath, there are, and will always be disturbing thoughts and questions pending.
the limitations of human understanding i guess we gotta live with,
but no biggie, cause we're only here for the blink of an eye.
so i say "screw it"! let's dance!!
Re: pssst
my god, (snif) that was beautiful.
(snif)
don't cry... you'll get me started too XoP
Re: (snif)
the truth is only absent when you're surrounded by liars.